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[ LA HABRA PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA REGULAR MEETING MONDAY, MARCH 9, 2026 6:30 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBER 100 EAST LA HABRA BOULEVARD LA HABRA, CALIFORNIA 90631 Please note that should all business not be concluded by 10:00 p.m., the Chair shall either authorize an extension of time to said meeting or continue all unfinished items to a future meeting, date certain, or date uncertain.]
THE MEETING WILL PLEASE COME TO ORDER.WILL THE AUDIENCE PLEASE STAND AND JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? HAND OVER YOUR HEART.
READY? BEGIN I PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, FLAG, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE.
WILL THE SECRETARY PLEASE CALL ROLE CHAIR MACHA.
HERE, LET THE RECORD SHOW THAT COMMISSIONER CARDENA AND LOGAN CANNON HAVE AN EXCUSED ABSENCE.
PUBLIC COMMENTS SHALL BE RECEIVED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GOVERNING BODY MEETING AND LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER INDIVIDUAL WITH A TOTAL TIME LIMIT OF 30 MINUTES FOR ALL PUBLIC COMMENTS, UNLESS OTHERWISE MODIFIED BY THE CHAIR.
SPEAKING TIME MAY NOT BE GRANTED IN OUR LOAN TO ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL FOR PURPOSES OF EXTENDING AVAILABLE SPEAKING TIME AND COMMENTS MUST BE KEPT BRIEF, NON-REPETITIVE, AND PROFESSIONAL IN NATURE.
THE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE MEETING ALLOWS A PUBLIC TO ADDRESS ANY ITEM ON THE CONSENT CALENDAR OR OF CITY BUSINESS NOT APPEARING ON THE SCHEDULED AGENDA.
PER GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 5 4 9 5 4 0.3 A.
SUCH COMMENTS SHALL NOT BE RESPONDED TO BY THE GOVERNING BODY DURING THE MEETING, DO WE HAVE ANYONE, DO WE HAVE ANYONE THAT WISHES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON THE ITEMS, ON THE CONSENT CALENDAR, OR ANY ITEM NOT APPEARING ON THE AGENDA? SEEING NONE, WE WILL NOW CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND MOVE ON TO THE CONSENT CALENDAR.
ALL MATTERS ON CONSENT CALENDAR ARE CONSIDERED TO BE ROUTINE AND WILL BE ENACTED BY ONE MOTION UNLESS A COMMISSIONER OR CITY STAFF MEMBER REQUESTS SEPARATE ACTION OR REMOVAL OF AN ITEM REMOVED.
ITEMS WILL BE CONSIDERED FOLLOWING THE CONSENT CALENDAR PORTION OF THIS AGENDA.
PUBLIC COMMENTS SHALL BE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER INDIVIDUAL WITH A TOTAL TIME LIMIT OF 30 MINUTES PER ITEM THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED FOR SEPARATE DISCUSSION, UNLESS OTHERWISE MODIFIED BY THE CHAIR.
SPEAKING TIME MAY NOT BE GRANTED IN OUR LOAN TO ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL FOR PURPOSES OF EXTENDING AVAILABLE SPEAKING TIME AND COMMENTS MUST BE KEPT BRIEF, NON-REPETITIVE, AND PROFESSIONAL IN NATURE BEFORE THE COMMISSION AT THIS TIME IS THE CONSENT CALENDAR, WHICH INCLUDES THE MINUTES FROM FEBRUARY 23RD, 2026.
THIS ITEM WILL BE APPROVED WITH ONE VOTE UNLESS THE ITEM IS REMOVED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.
DO ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS OR STAFF MEMBERS WISH TO REMOVE THIS ITEM? NO.
CAN I HAVE A MOTION? MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT CALENDAR.
A MOTION HAS BEEN MADE BY COMMISSIONER MANLEY AND SECONDED BY MYSELF.
EVERYONE, PLEASE ENTER YOUR VOTE IF, IF ROY IS ABSTAINING, WILL IT PASS WITH? YEAH.
MOTION PASSES TWO ONE WITH COMMISSIONER RAMS LYNN ABSTAINING.
WE WILL NOW MOVE TO THE PUBLIC HEARING SCHEDULED FOR THIS EVENING.
THE PROCEDURES WILL BE AS FOLLOWS.
THE CHAIR WILL INTRODUCE THE ITEM AND THEN STAFF WILL GIVE A REPORT ON THE ITEM.
THOSE WHO WISH TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE ITEM WILL BE RECOGNIZED FIRST AND THEN THE COMMISSION WILL HEAR FROM THOSE IN OPPOSITION.
REBUTTALS WILL BE ALLOWED ONLY AT THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIR.
AFTER ALL HAVE SPOKEN, THE PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE CLOSED AND THE COMMISSION WILL DISCUSS THE MATTER AND TAKE ANY ACTIONS IT DEEMS APPROPRIATE.
IF YOU WISH TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER'S CARD AND LEAVE IT AT THE ELECTION.
WHEN YOU COME FORWARD TO SPEAK, YOU'LL FIND THE SPEAKER'S CARD ON THE TABLE AT THE ENTRANCE OF THE CHAMBER.
WHEN YOU COME FORWARD, PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND SPELL YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE ADDRESS ALL COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS TO THE CHAIR.
THERE SHOULD BE NO DIRECT EXCHANGES BETWEEN MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE.
PUBLIC COMMENTS SHALL BE LIMITED TO FIVE MINUTES PER INDIVIDUAL WITH A TOTAL TIME LIMIT OF 60 MINUTES FOR ALL PUBLIC COMMENTS.
FOR EACH PUBLIC HEARING ITEM ON THE AGENDA, UNLESS MODIFIED BY THE CHAIR, COMMENTS MUST BE KEPT BRIEF, NON-REPETITIVE, AND PROFESSIONAL IN NATURE.
TONIGHT'S FIRST PUBLIC HEARING ITEM IS A DULY NOTICED PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER MODIFICATION 26 DASH 0 0 0 1 2 CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 25 DASH 16 WHICH ALLOWS ALCOHOL, BEVERAGE, SALES AND SERVICES UNDER A TYPE 48 LICENSE ISSUED BY THE CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL TO ALLOW ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE SALES AND SERVICES UNDER A TYPE 47 LICENSE ISSUED BY A BC WITHIN AN EXISTING GENERAL RETAIL USE, LOCATED AT 1 3 0 5
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WEST WHITTIER BOULEVARD AND OUTSIDE THE GENERAL RETAIL USE WITHIN AN ADJACENT PATIO AREA LOCATED AT 1 4 3 9 WEST WHITTIER BOULEVARD.DO WE HAVE CORRESPONDENCE FOR THIS ITEM? NO, WE DO NOT.
MADAM CHAIR, BUT WE DO HAVE A STAFF REPORT.
GOOD EVENING PLANNING COMMISSIONERS.
THE PROJECT SITE IS LOCATED WITHIN THE LAHABRA TOWN CENTER SHOPPING PLAZA AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF WHITTIER BOULEVARD AND IDAHO STREET AND INVOLVES THE NORTHGATE MARKET, WHICH HAS BEEN AT THIS LOCATION SINCE 2017.
THE LA HABRA TOWN CENTER SHOPPING PLAZA WAS DEVELOPED IN 1978 AND INCLUDES SIX BUILDINGS OF VARIOUS SIZES AND TENANT SUITES AS WELL AS AN OPEN SEATING AND GATHERING AREA KNOWN AS POEO GONZALEZ.
IN DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR, THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVED A MODIFICATION TO THE EXISTING RESTAURANT SPACE WITHIN NORTHGATE MARKET TO REPLACE THE SELF-SERVICE DELI COUNTERS WITH 64 NEW CHAIRS ALONG WITH THE ADDITION OF A 16 SEAT BAR AREA.
AT THE SAME TIME, THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVED CUP 25 DASH 0 0 1 16 FOR A TYPE 48 ON SALE A BC LICENSE FOR THE SALE OF BEER, WINE AND SPIRITS FOR ONSITE CONSUMPTION AT THE BAR.
AT THE MEETING, THE APPLICANT ALSO EXPRESSED THE COMPANY'S INTEREST IN FURTHER EXPANDING THE ON SALE A BC LICENSE THROUGHOUT THE STORE AS WELL AS A PORTION OF THE OUTDOOR PATIO AREA IN THE FUTURE.
IN JANUARY OF 2026, THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED PLANS FOR A PROPOSED MODIFICATION TO CUP 25 DASH ZERO 16 TO EXPAND THE TYPE 48 LICENSE, WHICH PERMITS ONSITE ALCOHOL SALES AND CONSUMPTION STRICTLY AT THE BAR TO A TYPE 47 LICENSE AND PERMIT ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION THROUGHOUT THE RESTAURANT SPACE AND THE GROCERY AREA.
FURTHER, TO MAXIMIZE THE AVAILABILITY OF THE OUTDOOR SEATING AREA WITHIN, UH, WITHIN POEO GONZALEZ, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A FENCE OFF APPROXIMATELY 2000 SQUARE FEET AS PART OF THE TYPE 47 LICENSE AS REQUIRED BY A BC AS THIS IS ALREADY PRIMARILY UTILIZED BY NORTHGATE CLIENTELE.
TO RECAP THE ACTIVE ENTITLEMENTS AT THIS LOCATION, WE HAVE CUP 16 DASH THREE, WHICH WAS AMENDED RECENTLY BY MODIFICATION 25 DASH 0 0 1, WHICH APPROVED THE 4,000 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANT SPACE AND BAR AREA.
INSIDE THE FOOTPRINT OF THE NORTHGATE MARKET, WE HAVE COP 16 DASH ZERO FOUR, WHICH APPROVED A TYPE 21 LICENSE FOR THE SALE OF BEER, WINE AND SPIRITS.
FROM THE GROCERY SECTION FOR OFFSITE CONSUMPTION, WE HAVE CUP 17 DASH ZERO TWO, WHICH APPROVED A TYPE 86 LICENSE FOR THE ONSITE SAMPLING OF BEER, WINE, AND SPIRITS WITHIN THE GROCERY SECTION IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE ACTIVE TYPE 21 LICENSE.
AND WE HAVE CUP 25 DASH 0 0 1 16 WHICH APPROVE A TYPE 48 LICENSE FOR THE BAR THAT IS BEING AMENDED BY MODIFICATION 26 DASH 0 0 0 1, WHICH WILL APPROVE A TYPE 47 LICENSE FOR THE ONSITE SALE AND CONSUMPTION OF BEER, WINE, AND SPIRITS WITHIN THE RESTAURANT SECTION, THE OUTDOOR PATIO AREA AS WELL AS THE ENTIRE GROCERY STORE.
HOWEVER, SEALED BOTTLES OF ALCOHOL CANNOT BE PURCHASED FROM THE GROCERY AREA ONTO THE TYPE 21 LICENSE AND OPENED AND CONSUMED WITHIN THE RESTAURANT OR PATIO AREA AS THAT IS PROHIBITED BY A-B-C-A-B-C IDENTIFIES THE NORTHGATE MARKET AS LOCATED WITHIN CENSUS 11.01 AND RECOMMENDS THE ISSUANCE OF A MAXIMUM OF SIX ON SALE LICENSES WITHIN THE TRACT.
BECAUSE THE MODIFICATION OR PROPOSED MODIFICATION WOULD REPLACE THE EXISTING TYPE 48 LICENSE WITH THE TYPE 47 LICENSE, THE TOTAL NUMBER OF ON SALE LICENSES WITHIN THE TRACT WILL REMAIN AT SIX AND THUS NO FINDING OF PUBLIC CONVENIENCE OR NECESSITY IS REQUIRED.
AS DISCUSSED, NORTHGATE MARKET CURRENTLY HOLDS AN ACTIVE TYPE 21 LICENSE AND A TYPE 86 LICENSE, WHICH WILL ALLOW FOR ONSITE SAMPLING AND OFFSITE CONSUMPTION OF BEER, WINE, AND SPIRITS.
THESE TWO LICENSES PERTAIN TO THE GROCERY STORE PORTION ONLY AND WILL REMAIN AS IS.
STAFF RECOMMENDS THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVE THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST TO MODIFY THE EXISTING TYPE 48 LICENSE
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TO A TYPE 47 LICENSE SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL AND REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE ENFORCED BY A BC.THANK YOU STAFF AND THE APPLICANT ARE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
AT THIS TIME I'LL ASK THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF.
I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS IF I MAY.
UM, THE RED BOX IN THE RESTAURANT AREA AND AND THE GREEN SHADED AREA, THAT'S THE REST OF THE, THE STORE, THERE'S, OTHER THAN THE COLORS HERE, THERE'S REALLY GONNA BE NO DELINEATION THAT MAKES THAT CLEAR IN WITHIN THE STORE, IS THAT CORRECT, ASH? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND SO JUST SO I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS CORRECTLY, THE SALE OF BEER, WINE AND SPIRITS UNDER THE CUP, UH, THE TYPE 47, UM, ALLOWS FOR CONSUMPTION ONSITE, WHICH COULD OCCUR ESSENTIALLY ANYWHERE IN, IN THIS PURPLE, RED, OR GREEN AREA? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THE EGRESS FROM THE RESTAURANT AREA ONTO THE PATIO IS IN THAT LOWER LEFT CORNER, RIGHT? YES, THE, UH, LITTLE GREEN ARROWS THAT ARE BY THE DOOR RIGHT THERE.
AND THE THE PURPLE SHADED PATIO AREA, I I THINK YOU, YOU MENTIONED FENCING THERE AT SOME POINT.
I I THOUGHT I HEARD THE, THE WORD FENCING.
SO, UM, IF WHENEVER THERE'S ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION OUTDOORS, A BC REQUIRES THAT AREA TO BE FENCED OFF.
SO, UM, THE PORTION THAT, UH, THE PORTION OF POEO GONZALEZ THAT WILL BE USED FOR THAT ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION IS REQUIRED TO BE FENCED OFF AND THAT'S WHAT'S BEING SHOWN.
SO THERE WOULD BE NO, 'CAUSE I THINK CONCURRENTLY EITHER THERE IS NO FENCING THERE IN THAT PURPLE AREA.
SO YOU COULD ENTER, LET'S CALL IT THE STORE FROM THAT SAME, THOSE SAME TWO GREEN ARROWS IN THE LOWER LEFT HAND CORNER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, YOU, YOU COULD ENTER THE STORE FROM THERE, CORRECT? RIGHT.
YEAH, RIGHT NOW THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO, UM, EXISTING FENCING OVER THERE.
THE ONLY FENCE OR GATE THAT EXISTS, UH, IS ON THE OTHER BUILDING TO THE WEST, UH, FOR A LITTLE OUTDOOR PATIO AREA THAT USED TO BE SMOKE AND FIRE.
BUT YEAH, THERE'S NO EXISTING FENCING IN THAT PURPLE REGION.
AND SO WHEN YOU'RE ON IN THE PATIO AREA, UM, I, I'D ASSUME THERE'S SOME TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, PANIC EGRESS SOMEWHERE, UM, ALONG THERE OR THERE WOULD BE, IS THAT CORRECT? THERE'S GONNA BE A GATE.
AND WHERE WOULD THAT BE? UH, IT WOULD BE NEAR THE FRONT WHERE THAT'S WHERE THE ENTRANCE ACTUALLY IS TO THE BUILDING KIND OF WHERE IT SAYS POEO GONZALEZ AT THE BOTTOM THERE.
AND THAT WOULD BE EXIT ONLY KIND OF SECURED PANIC HARDWARE FROM THE INSIDE, OR IS THAT GONNA BE AN ENTRY POINT FOR THE PUBLIC TO GO INTO THAT PATIO AREA AND THEN INTO THE STORE RESTAURANT AREA? THAT WOULD BE A, UM, SOMETHING THAT A B, C DECIDES.
WE CAN'T NECESSARILY ENFORCE ANYTHING ON THAT.
UM, BUT I WOULD NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT.
I MEAN, FOR THE RECORD, THAT WOULD BE A, A CONCERN THAT, THAT I WOULD HAVE AND, AND WE COULD PASS IT ALONG TO A, B, C AND, AND SEE WHAT THEY DECIDE.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THAT, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD KIND OF CIRCUMVENT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF HAVING THAT FENCED IN AREA FOR WHERE, YOU KNOW, ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION'S HAPPENING IF WE'RE JUST GONNA CREATE, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC ACCESS TO THAT.
UM, AND THEN, WELL, SORRY, LET ME, LET ME CLARIFY.
YEAH, WHEN I, WHEN I SPOKE WITH THE, UH, THE ARCHITECT, HE DID MENTION THAT THEY'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY ENTRANCE, UM, AFTER THIS IS COMPLETED.
THEY'RE NOT PROPOSING, UM, THAT WESTERN DOORWAY TO BE AN ENTRANCE ANYMORE.
BUT AS FAR AS, UH, THE CITY ENFORCING LIKE A CONDITION, WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT.
IT'S JUST NOT PROPOSED BY THE APPLICANT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
UH, I IT MIGHT GO AGAINST WHAT I THOUGHT I, I HEARD YOU SAY PREVIOUSLY THOUGH THAT, THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE MUCH SAY IN THAT.
UM, AND, AND IF, IF WE, IF WE DO, I'D LIKE TO COMMENT MORE TO THAT.
UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WITHIN OUR PURVIEW OR NOT.
I WOULDN'T KNOW IF THAT'S A, B, C OR US.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION THAT WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO A B, C TO DETERMINE IF THAT'S SOMETHING THEY ENFORCE OR NOT.
AND I'LL, I'LL JUST CONTINUE ON THE NORTHERN SIDE OF THAT PURPLE AREA, UM, WHERE THAT PURPLE AREA ENDS ON THE NORTH SIDE THERE, NORTHWEST, THERE'S THOSE TWO KIND OF HALF CIRCLES.
WHAT, WHAT ARE THOSE INDICATING UNDER THE LETTER E? THAT'S A, SO AT, AT THE, UH, NORTHWEST CORNER OF THAT, UH, PURPLE
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REGION, YEAH, THAT'S A DOORWAY THAT GOES TO THE, THE REAR OF THE SITE.AND, AND WHAT, HOW IS THAT SECURED? IS THAT SECURED IN ANY WAY? IS THAT, OR IS THAT AN EGRESS POINT, AN EMERGENCY EXIT? IS IT, IS THAT ANY TYPE OF INGRESS? YEAH, IT'S AN EMERGENCY ACCESS ROUTE.
SO, UM, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW THIS WHOLE PATIO AREA IS JUST OPEN.
SO THAT'S THE ACCESSIBLE WALKWAY THAT GOES TO THE BACK OF THE SITE, AND THAT WOULD REMAIN AS IS.
SO CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE ON THE PARKING LOT, THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THIS POEO GONZALEZ PATIO, YOU COULD WALK DIRECTLY THROUGH THERE AND YOU COULD EXIT ON THE NORTH SIDE AS A PEDESTRIAN? YES.
AND, AND YOU'D HAVE TO JUST GO OUT OPEN, THERE'S JUST NO WALL THERE AT ALL? IT'S JUST WIDE OPEN.
WELL, SO THE, YEAH, NO, THERE IS A WALL.
SO THE ONLY, UM, OPEN AREA IS JUST THAT DOORWAY.
SO YEAH, THE, IT'S JUST A SWINGING DOOR.
IT'S A, IT'S A DOUBLE SWINGING DOOR.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S INDICATED HERE.
YEAH, BUT IT, IT'S JUST A LITTLE UNCLEAR 'CAUSE THE, THE WALL PROBABLY EXTENDS SOMEWHERE ON EITHER SIDE OF THAT THAT I'M JUST NOT SEEING HERE.
SO THAT'S WHY I JUST WANTED CLARIFICATION.
YEAH, THAT'S WHERE THE LOADING DOCKS ARE.
SO, UM, ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THOSE DOORS IS THE BACK BACKSIDE OF THE OTHER BUILDING.
AND ON THE RIGHT SIDE IS A, UH, A CMU WALL.
AND YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET ACCESS FROM THE NORTH SIDE IF YOU WANTED TO COME INTO THAT PATIO AREA 'CAUSE THOSE DOORS ARE SECURED FROM, FROM THE OUTSIDE.
THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO ACCESS FROM THAT NORTH SIDE.
JUST IF YOU HAPPENED TO BE THERE WHEN SOMEBODY HAD KIND OF PUSHED IT OPEN, THEN YOU COULD COME ON IN AND MAKE ENTRY THAT WAY.
WELL, BUT THE POEO AND THE PATIO ARE, ARE, ARE ALL THE SAME AT THIS POINT UNTIL THAT FENCING IS, IS PUT IN ALONG THAT DARKER PURPLE LINE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THAT PURPLE SHADED AREA.
I, THE WAY I SEE IT IS THE, THE EDGES OF THE PURPLE WILL BE WHERE THE FENCE IS AT.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THAT DOUBLE WIDE GATE WON'T BE AN ENTRANCE INTO THE PATIO AREA, JUST THE WALKWAY THAT WILL REMAIN.
THAT WILL REMAIN BECAUSE ONCE THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THE, THE FENCING FOLLOWS THE PATHWAY SO THAT THOSE DOORS WILL ONLY BE ACCESSIBLE, ACCESSIBLE THROUGH THE PATHWAY AND NOT THE PATIO ITSELF.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO THE ONLY WAY OUTTA THE PATIO AREA WOULD BE ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE AND IT'S NOT DEPICTED VERY WELL HERE? NO.
IF ANY, IF ANY, LIKE EGRESS OR THERE IS GONNA BE AN EGRESS.
SO YOU COULD GET OUT THERE WHICH WOULD ESSENTIALLY GET YOU ONTO THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF, YOU KNOW, THE PROPERTY RIGHT, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE STORE.
YOU WOULD HEAD TOWARDS THAT FOUNTAIN THAT'S IN THE FRONT, YEAH.
OR YOU CAN GO BACK INTO THE STORE THROUGH THOSE GREEN ARROWS.
AND IT'S UNCLEAR THE POINT WE, THAT I RAISED EARLIER, IT'S, IT'S UNCLEAR IF WE WOULD HAVE ANY CONDITION ON, YOU KNOW, IF THAT WAS AN ACCESS, AN ENTRY POINT FOR THE PUBLIC INTO THE PATIO AREA OR NOT.
WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A, A CALL THAT WE COULD MAKE AS A CONDITION OR IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT A, B, C WOULD, WOULD BE ABLE TO, I GUESS, USURP OUR PURVIEW.
UM, AND, AND JUST THE CONCEPT IS, IS UNFAMILIAR TO ME TO HAVE A GROCERY STORE WHERE YOU COULD JUST, YOU KNOW, GO BUY A BEER AND JUST DO YOUR GROCERY SHOPPING WITH A, YOU KNOW, A DRINK IN YOUR HAND.
UH, I, I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A QUESTION ATTACHED TO THAT, BUT JUST IT'S UNUSUAL.
UM, I JUST, THAT THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING.
UM, BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN TO A GROCERY STORE WHERE WE JUST HAVE OPEN CONTAINERS THROUGHOUT.
JUST SEEMS INTERESTING TO ME AS A COMMENT.
THEY HAVE TARGETS THAT DO THIS
I I RAISED ALL THOSE SAME QUESTIONS THAT THE LAST TIME.
I THINK I JUST HAVE A FEW COMMENTS.
'CAUSE I THINK THE AREA YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT AT THE TOP WHERE THE, THOSE GATES, THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY A SOLID WALL WITH THE DOORS.
IT'S NOT A FENCE, IT'S THEN THAT TAKES YOU BACK INTO THE LOADING DOCK.
SO THAT'S NOT PUBLIC AREA BACK THERE AT ALL.
THAT'S, THAT'S JUST LIKE AN EMERGENCY TO GET STUFF IN AND OUT IF YOU NEED TO.
UM, WHAT I'M A LITTLE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT IS, SO THE ENTRANCE IN THE LOWER CORNER, WHICH IS NOW ONE OF THE PRIMARY ENTRANCES INTO THE STORE FROM THE, FROM THE PASEO AND FROM THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF ALL THOSE BUILDINGS.
I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF A MAJOR ENTRY POINT.
SO CLOSING THAT OFF IS A MAJOR ENTRY POINT.
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FOR ME TO TELL ON THIS PLAN.SO IS THERE STILL A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO GET NO, NO.
SO DOES THE SIDEWALK GROW IN FRONT OF THAT WHOLE PINK AREA SO THAT SOMEBODY COULD LEAVE FROM WHERE THE FOUNTAIN'S AT AND GO TO THOSE OTHER DOORS WITHOUT HAVING TO WALK INTO THE STREETS? YES, YES.
I CAN'T TELL THAT FROM THE RIGHT.
SO, UM, THERE IS, SO WHERE THAT PURPLE TO BE INSTALLED FENCE WOULD GO, UH, THAT JUST LINES UP WITH THE BUILDING.
THERE IS STILL THE ENTIRE EXISTING SIDEWALK AREA FOR YOU TO WALK AROUND AND ENTER THROUGH THE ACTUAL SOUTHERN, UM, ENTRANCE.
AND I THINK DIDN'T SMOKE AND FIRE WASN'T ON THE LEFT SIDE.
WASN'T THAT FENCED IN AT ONE POINT WITH THEIR A, B, C LICENSE? IS THAT FENCE STILL THAT? YEAH, SO THAT, UH, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT.
THERE'S A HALF CIRCLE, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO THAT FENCE AND THAT WILL STAY THERE AND I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A THERE TOO.
SO AT THIS POINT THE WHOLE PATIO IS FENCED IN EXCEPT FOR THAT WALK A WALKWAY DOWN THE MIDDLE OF IT BASICALLY.
SO, UM, SO THAT ENTRANCE AT THE LOWER LEFT, DOES THIS COMPLY WITH BUILDING CODES IN TERMS OF HAVING PROPER, PROPER EXITING? BECAUSE WHERE, WHERE'S THE NEXT NEAREST EXIT OUTTA THAT AREA IF THE ONE ON THE LOWER RIGHT SIDE OF THE BOX ISN'T AVAILABLE? IS THERE AN EXIT OUT THE BACK? I, I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, DID THE BUILDING OFFICIAL GET A CHANCE TO LOOK IN THIS AND DID HE COMMENT ABOUT WHETHER THE EXITING MET CODE? YES.
SO THE BUILDING, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT MADE SURE THAT THERE'S TWO EXISTING EXIT POINTS AT ALL TIMES.
SO THERE'S THE BOTTOM RIGHT AND THEN THERE'S THE EXIT INTO THE POEO, WHICH STILL RETAINS AN EGRESS.
SO THERE'LL STILL BE TWO EXIT POINTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
BUT, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS AS IF IT'S WERE JUST THE RESTAURANT AREA.
THERE'S STILL AN EN ENTRANCE OVER BY THE BAKERY.
WHY WOULD THEY EVEN NEED TO STILL HAVE THE ONE ON THE LEFT? WELL, THAT'S MY PART OF MY QUESTION.
'CAUSE IN THE BUILDING CODES, YOU, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE EXITING AT CERTAIN DISTANCE AND BASED ON THE SIZE OF YOUR STORE AND WHERE, WHERE YOU HAVE THINGS.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING WHAT'S, WHAT'S GOING ON OVER THERE.
BECAUSE IF, IF THAT COUNT IS THEN OFFICIAL FIRE EXIT, AS I RECALL, THE, THE RULE IS YOU CAN'T PASS THROUGH SOMEWHERE ELSE GOING OUT AS IF IT'S THE FIRE EXIT.
IT HAS TO GO OUT INTO AN OPEN AREA.
IT CAN'T GO INTO ANY KIND OF AN ENCLOSED PATIO OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ALTERNATE SPACE.
SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING IF THAT'S A REQUIRED FIRE EXIT OR NOT, BECAUSE IF IT IS, I DON'T THINK THIS COMPLIES WITH CODE THE WAY IT SHOWED HERE.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY STAFF CAN CHECK WITH, WITH THE BUILDING OFFICIAL.
IT, IT MAY BE THAT THAT FENCE OF THE CLOSED IN AREA HAS TO BE MODIFIED IN SOME MANNER OR UNLESS THERE'S ANOTHER OFFICIAL FIRE EXIT THAT I'M NOT SEEING IT.
'CAUSE IT, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T, UH, SHOWS WHERE THAT'S AT.
'CAUSE I'M SURE THERE'S OTHER EXITS, UH, TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE BUILDING AND, AND ON THE, ON THE SIDES AND, AND, BUT THAT'S JUST MY KIND OF MY QUESTION ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
WELL, THERE ARE EXITS TO THE BACK OF THE BUILDING.
SO JUST NORTH OF THAT PURPLE REGION YOU CAN SEE THE SWING OPEN DOORS.
UM, THEY AREN'T PARTICULARLY WELL DEPICTED, BUT WHERE IS IT AT? NORTH OF THE PURPLE AREA.
THERE, I I THINK THAT'S THE, UM, I FORGOT WHAT THE ACTUAL LIKE RIGHT, LIKE RIGHT ABOVE BETWEEN SECTION F AND G.
LET, LET ME GO TO A DIFFERENT PICTURE.
BECAUSE AGAIN, IF THAT LOOK LIKE YOU HAVE TO EXIT THROUGH A KITCHEN TO GET, TO GET OUTSIDE IS A FIRE EXIT.
SO YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH INTERMEDIATE AREAS.
YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO GET FROM THE MAIN ASSEMBLY AREA TO OUTSIDE WITHOUT OBSTRUCTIONS.
IF I MAY, I'D LIKE TO JUST REMIND THE COMMISSION THAT WE CAN WORK WITH THE APPLICANT THROUGH THE BUILDING PLAN CHECK PROCESS ON THOSE REQUIREMENTS THAT THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE DECISION THAT'S BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.
WELL, IT, IT, IT ACTUALLY DOES BECAUSE IF IF IT DOESN'T COMPLY WITH CODE, THEN WHY CAN'T, WE CAN'T REALLY APPROVE IT.
BUT WE'RE MAKING THE ASSUMPTION THAT IT DOESN'T APPLY OR I'M NOT MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION.
I'M NOT MAKING ANY ASSUMPTION.
WE, IT COMPLIES WITH CODE AT THIS POINT.
THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING THE QUESTION.
WE WOULD HAVE TO, WE WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME THAT, AND I, AND I, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THIS, WHAT THIS
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BUILDING IS LIKE, THESE ENTRANCES ARE A LOT CLOSER TO ONE ANOTHER THAN IT APPEARS.IT JUST, IT'S A VERY SMALL AREA THAT, THAT AREA WHERE THE, THE LEFT ENTRANCE, IT'S VERY CRAMPED WHEN YOU'RE COMING IN.
I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT THAT ENTRANCE ANYWAYS, BUT I, BECAUSE YEAH, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE, ANY OF THOSE RECTANGLES, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE STORE.
BASICALLY AND AROUND ALL THE CHECK STAND AREAS, WHICH WEREN'T ORIGINALLY WHEN THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS APPROVED, THEY'VE PUT IN ALL KINDS OF FENCING AND BARRICADES TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM GETTING OUT AND IN EASILY IN THE CHECK STAND AREAS.
SO LIKE I SAID, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT EXITING IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S A, IF THERE'S A PROBLEM.
I JUST HAVEN'T NOTICED THAT IT'S ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER SUPERMARKET I'VE EVER BEEN IN.
UH, I ALSO WANNA CLARIFY THAT THESE PLANS HAVE BEEN REVIEWED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIALS.
SO, AND OTHERWISE WE WOULDN'T REALLY BE HERE.
SO, UH, IF THERE'S FURTHER CONCERNS, THEY CAN DEFINITELY BE ADDRESS, AS SONIA MENTIONED, THEY COULD DEFINITELY BE, UM, READDRESSED OR, OR REVISITED WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.
BUT CAN WE PUT THAT IN THE RESOLUTION THEN IF THAT, AS LONG AS IT COMPLIES WITH, UM, I TH CAN YOU MAKE A RESOLUTION, YOU'RE ASSUMING IT COMPLIES WITH THAT CODE AND JUST AS A, JUST AS A POINT TO YOU CAN STILL EXIT THE STORE ONTO THE PATIO AND THERE WILL BE A GATE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO EXIT THE PATIO.
THE PATIO'S NOT GONNA BE ENCLOSED WHERE YOU CAN'T EXIT THE PATIO.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S STILL NOT INTO AN OPEN PUBLIC WAY.
IT'S STILL THROUGH AN INTERMEDIATE SPACE, BUT THAT WAS THE SAME GATE THAT I HAD KIND OF HAD A QUESTION ABOUT, RIGHT.
LIKE, IS THAT, IS THAT A GATE THAT WE CAN ENTER THE STORE FROM? AND, AND WE, I THOUGHT WE WERE UNCLEAR ON THAT ABOUT 10 MINUTES AGO.
SO I THINK A, B, C HAS TO ANSWER THE QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GONNA ALLOW THE GATE TO OPEN WHERE YOU CAN ENTER INTO THE PATIO AND INTO THE STORE, OR IF IT'S JUST GONNA BE A GATE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO EXIT FROM THE PATIO.
SO I THINK THAT'S THE CLARIFICATION THAT WE NEED TO GET FROM A, B, C.
BUT BUILDING HAS REVIEWED THIS AND IT DOES MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE EXIT THAT ROY IS CONCERNED ABOUT IN EGRESS.
SO YOU WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO EXIT THE PATIO ONTO THE PATIO AND THEN THERE'S A WAY FOR YOU TO GET OUT OF THE PATIO, WHICH IS THE GATE THAT'S BEING INSTALLED.
YEAH, I MEAN, MY CONCERN WOULD STILL REMAIN IF, IF ANYBODY WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER IS WE DON'T KNOW.
AND SO, UM, I GUESS I I AM UNCLEAR ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ACTING ON TONIGHT.
AND, AND I WOULD SEEK CLARIFICATION ON THAT.
UH, IF WE'RE GONNA JUST REFER TO A B, C ON SOME OF THIS, THAT'S FINE.
UM, SO MAYBE SOMEBODY COULD CLARIFY FOR ME, THE CITY OF ATTORNEY, ANY OF YOU, UM, WHAT, WHAT IS IT THAT THAT WE'RE HERE TO DETERMINE TONIGHT THEN? WELL, GEN GENERALLY ABC'S RULES IN TERMS OF FENCES AND GATES IN AND OUT OF OUTDOOR AREAS WHERE THEY'RE CONTAINING AREN'T LOCKED.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT MONITORED.
IT'S A, B, C ASSUMES THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER IS TAKING THE RESPONSIBILITY TO MONITOR THOSE AREAS AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE AREN'T TAKING THE ALCOHOL OUTSIDE THOSE AREAS.
IT'S NOT LIKE IT, EVERYTHING'S LOCKED IN AND IT'S, IM IMPOSSIBLE TO GET OUT.
THAT JUST DOESN'T, DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.
UM, SO AGAIN, SO WHEN A B, C APPROVES THIS, THAT THEIR, THEIR ASSUMPTION IS, YOU KNOW, PE THE, THE PEOPLE MANAGING THE STORE ARE GOING TO COMPLY WITH ABC'S RULES AND BY, AND IF THAT TAKES STAFF OR CAMERAS OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT TAKES 'EM TO, TO MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
BUT, SO I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT SO MUCH, I'M JUST, SO, I'M JUST A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT EXITING AND IT, AND IT MAY BE JUST FINE.
I I JUST, IT'S JUST, JUST MY QUESTION.
SO, BUT THIS EVENING, TO BE CLEAR, WHAT WE'RE DECIDING ON IS THE COP TO BE ABLE TO SERVE THE ALCOHOL, SERVE THE AL ALCOHOL.
WES NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE FENCING AND ALL OF THAT STUFF THAT IS NOT BEFORE US THIS EVENING.
SO THE FENCING IS, IS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL AS ENFORCED AND REQUIRED BY A, B, C.
SO THERE'S A PROJECT SPECIFICALLY THE, THE FENCING IS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL.
AND WHAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IS PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO EXIT IN THE CASE OF A FIRE EMERGENCY.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, THAT'S NOT MY EXCLUSIVE CONCERN.
MY CONCERN IN ADDITION TO THAT WOULD BE, UM, THAT ARE WE ALLOWING ENTRY TO THE PATIO AREA FOR ANYBODY THAT WOULD GO INTO THE PATIO AREA, THEN INTO WHAT WAS THE STORE? NOW WE'RE GONNA CALL THAT THE RESTAURANT PORTION OF THE STORE WHERE WE'RE SERVING ALCOHOL AND CONSUMING ALCOHOL AND, AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY HAPPENING IN THE OTHER TWO ENTRANCES.
[00:30:01]
WOULD BE MY OTHER CONCERN.WHAT'S, WHAT'S, SO WALK ME THROUGH WHAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THERE.
IF PEOPLE CAN GO IN THROUGH THERE, PRESUME THEY'RE COMING IN TO SHOP, THEY HAVEN'T BOUGHT ANYTHING YET.
I'M, I'M NOT WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR CONCERN? WELL, WHEN, WHEN WE REVIEW, I MEAN, WE REVIEWED SO MANY OF THESE ABCS AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION AND WE, WE OFTEN GET INTO QUESTIONS OF WHERE ARE THEIR FENCES, WHAT IS THE SECURITY LIKE AROUND THESE RESTAURANTS, BUSINESSES, UH, TIMES, ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
SO WE HAVE ANYBODY THAT'S IN THAT COMPLEX CAN ENTER INTO THIS PATIO AREA.
WE DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS.
AND DO WHAT? WELL, AND THEY CAN BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS RESTAURANT BAR AREA AS, AS A MINOR.
UH, AND YES, AND YOU CAN, CAN, THEY CAN, BUT NOT UN UNACCOMPANIED MINORS AREN'T GONNA BE SERVED ALCOHOL AT THE BAR.
SO THIS CONCEPT OF, YOU KNOW, A BC LICENSE REQUIRING ANYWHERE THERE'S A CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL TO HAVE SOME SORT OUTDOOR AREA TO BE FENCED OFF, IF THAT FENCE HAS A THREE FOOT, FOUR FOOT, SIX FOOT OPENING IN IT THAT ANYBODY CAN WALK INTO, IT'S NOT FENCED OFF.
IT'S OPEN FOR THREE FEET, FOUR FEET, SIX FEET, HOWEVER WIDE MM-HMM
SO THAT DEFEATS THE ENTIRE PURPOSE.
WAIT, SORRY, WHICH, CLARIFY THAT AGAIN.
I MEAN, JUST MORE CLARIFYING TO, TO THE CHAIR'S QUESTION OF THAT WHOLE AREA BEING FENCED OFF, WHICH IS A REQUIREMENT OF A, B, C.
NOW IF THERE'S A, A THREE FOOT, FOUR FOOT, 'CAUSE WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TONIGHT IS WE DON'T KNOW.
IS IT A GATE, IS IT OPEN, IS IT CLOSED? OH, OH, NO, IT'S A GATE.
IT CAN'T BE, IT'S NOT JUST AN OPEN AREA AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE SITE, THERE'S A GATE THAT CAN ONLY BE EXITED AND YOU CAN'T ACCESS THAT GATE FROM LET'S SAY THE FOUNTAIN AREA AS IN ENTER THROUGH IT.
SO THE, THE CITY, WE DON'T PUT ANY REQUIREMENT ON THAT.
THAT WOULD BE ABC'S DISCRETION.
A B, C REQUIRES THAT FENCE AND A GATE BE THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT ALONG WITH SIGNAGE, UH, TO ENSURE THAT NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES OR OPEN CONTAINERS ARE REMOVED FROM THAT AREA.
MY POSITION TONIGHT IS JUST THAT A ABC'S REQUIREMENTS ARE A LITTLE BIT LUDICROUS IF THEY ARE REQUIRING THIS FENCED IN AREA AND THEN JUST HAVING A PORTION JUST BE A SWINGING GATE EITHER WAY.
UM, AND, AND IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, THEN THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
UM, BUT WE, WE'VE LOOKED AT RESTAURANTS AND WE'VE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, THESE TYPES OF THINGS.
TO ME IT'S JUST, IT'S DISCONCERTING THAT THAT'S A COMPLEX THAT HAS ALL TYPES OF BUSINESSES.
I MEAN, YOGURT LANDS FEW FEET AWAY IF, IF SOMEBODY WALKS IN, IF A, IF A KID WALKS INTO A BAR, UH, UNACCOMPANIED.
AND I, I, I SUPPOSE A KID CAN, BUT WE TRY TO, TO MAKE THESE, I MEAN, A, B, C HAS TO HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT FOR A REASON.
LET'S FENCE THIS AREA IN AND TRY TO, SO JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR THE A, BC FENCING, IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT.
IT'S AN AREA SHOWING WHERE YOU CAN HAVE YOUR ALCOHOL.
THAT ALCOHOL CAN'T LEAVE THIS POINT.
SO THAT'S WHY THEY REQUIRE THE FENCING.
BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM GOING INTO THAT AREA, WHETHER THEY'RE DRINKING ALCOHOL OR NOT.
IT'S THEIR, IT'S THEIR WAY OF MARKING.
THIS IS WHERE ALCOHOL THE FINAL POINT.
SO THAT'S REALLY THE WHOLE POINT OF THE FENCING.
AND THAT'S WHY THEY REQUIRE THE SIGNAGE AS WELL.
AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, A A JUST AN ANSWER FOR ME AS, AS, AS A RESIDENT OF THE CITY IS, IS THAT GATE GONNA BE OPEN? IF I WAS HERE TONIGHT SITTING OUT THERE, I I WOULD JUST WANT TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, I'D BE CURIOUS, IS THAT, IS THAT GONNA BE AN, AN ENTRY POINT TO THE STORE OR NOT? AND THEN WE COULD FURTHER THAT TO ROY'S QUESTION PRIOR TO THIS ABOUT, BECAUSE IF NOT, THEN THAT ENTRY, THOSE GREEN ARROWS ON THE LOWER LEFT HAND PORTION OF THE RED SHADED AREA BECOME KIND OF MOOT AT THAT POINT.
IF WE CAN'T COME IN TO THE PURPLE AREA FROM THERE, THAT, THAT THOSE DOORS WOULD THEN JUST BE THERE SO THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ENJOYING THEIR ADULT BEVERAGES THAT THEY BUY AT THE BAR WITH AN ID, THAT I CAN HAVE MY TEQUILA OUT ON THE PATIO INSTEAD OF SITTING IN THAT SEATING AREA OF THE RESTAURANT.
THAT'S WHAT THOSE DOORS WOULD BE FOR.
I, I, I DON'T WANNA MAKE LIGHT OF YOUR CONCERN.
I DON'T, I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT
[00:35:02]
ALSO, UH, SORRY, BY THE WAY, UH, YOU HAVEN'T OPENED THE PUBLIC COMMENT SIDE YES.SO, UH, THE APPLICANT COULD ALSO ANSWER POTENTIALLY SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE.
SO JUST A REMINDER AND WE'LL GET THERE.
I I, I DON'T WANT MINORS DRINKING IN THE SUPERMARKET EITHER, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS ANYTHING OVER AND ABOVE WHAT A BC REQUIRES IN THEIR LICENSE THAT CAN BE DONE OTHER THAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT OFFENSE WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
UM, BECAUSE YOU CAN ALSO TAKE, YOU KNOW, DRINK YOUR DRINK IN THE GREEN AREA AS WELL.
SO IT PRESUMABLY THERE WILL BE CHILDREN THERE AS WELL.
UM, AND I KNOW THAT AT THE BAR, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE SERVING ALCOHOL TO MINORS.
THEY'RE ONLY GONNA BE SERVING ALCOHOL TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE IDENTIFICATION THAT PROVES THAT THEY'RE OF AGE.
UM, AND FRANKLY, WE HAVE CHILDREN IN AREAS THAT SERVE ALCOHOL ALL THE TIME IN NORTHWOOD INN.
I MEAN, GO THERE WITH MY FAMILY ALL THE TIME.
SO I'M, I'M NOT SURE THAT, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I DON'T MAKE LIGHT OF YOUR CONCERN, BECAUSE I GET IT.
I DON'T WANT MINORS DRINKING OR BEING SERVED ALCOHOL EITHER, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT A FENCE WOULD CHANGE THAT OR A GATE WOULD CHANGE THAT.
BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK THE OWNER, THE DEVELOPER CAN ALWAYS GO OVER AND ABOVE BECAUSE TO ADDRESS PUBLIC CONCERNS.
AND I THINK THAT'S A LEGITIMATE THING TO ASK OF THE, THE, THE BUSINESS OWNER JUST TO, FOR PEACE OF MIND.
I WOULDN'T MIND SAYING, YOU KNOW, ASKING THEM TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, EVEN IF WE COULDN'T CONDITION IT.
WELL, AGAIN, I THINK IT GETS BACK TO MONITORING AND REASONABLENESS AND WHAT THE ABC'S REGULATIONS SAY.
YOU KNOW, ABC SETS THE RULES AND THEY'RE GONNA ENFORCE THEM, BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA SEND SOMEBODY OUT THERE EVERY 10 MINUTES.
IF, IF, IF YOU AS A CONCERNED RESIDENT CALL A B, C AND SAY, HEY, I SEE PEOPLE TAKING ALCOHOL OUTSIDE THIS AREA AND JUST DRINKING IT STANDING IN FRONT OF THE FOUNTAIN OVER THERE OR WHATEVER, THEN THEY'LL SEND SOMEBODY OUT TO INVESTIGATE.
BUT WHEN A BC GRANTS LICENSES TO LICENSEES, THE ASSUMPTION IS THEY'RE LIABLE FOR FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES, AND IF THEY DON'T FOLLOW ALL THE RULES, A B C'S GONNA PULL THEIR LICENSES.
SO AT THAT POINT, IT BECOMES THE JOB OF THE MANAGEMENT TO DECIDE HOW THEY FEEL.
THEY NEED TO MONITOR THE SITUATION IN ORDER TO COMPLY WITH THE RULES AND, AND THE LAWS.
IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T SAY, YOU COULD SAY, OKAY, YOU GOTTA HAVE A SECURITY GUARD OUT THERE.
AND, AND IT MAY BE THAT'S SOMETHING THEY CHOOSE TO DO BECAUSE THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IT OR NOT.
YOU, YOU KNOW, ABC'S NOT GONNA REQUIRE THAT, I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
UM, THEY JUST REQUIRE THE BORDER, THE, SO THE, THE BORDERS JUST, YOU KNOW, THE LINE IN THE SAND.
YOU, YOU, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO, TO CONSUME ALCOHOL BEYOND THIS POINT.
THERE CAN BE GATES IN AND OUT OF IT THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN LOTS OF DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.
SOMETIMES IT, YEAH, THEY'RE LOCKED SO THAT YOU GOT TO, YOU CAN'T GET TO IT FROM THE OUTSIDE BECAUSE THE BUSINESS OWNER DECIDES THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE COMING IN FROM THE OUTSIDE.
BUT I'VE SEEN ONES WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE GATES WORK BOTH WAYS TOO, WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AND GO.
SO I, I THINK THERE'S A VARIETY OF OPTIONS JUST AS, BUT THE POINT IS JUST CONTAINING IT WITHIN THAT AREA.
WOULD YOU GUYS BE COMFORTABLE CLOSING THE, THIS PORTION OF THE MEETING AND ACTUALLY, SO THAT WE CAN ACT, ASK THE BUSINESS OWNER, THE APPLICANT? YEAH, THAT'S FINE.
UM, WE WILL NOW OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
WE WILL HEAR FIRST FROM THE APPLICANT IF THEY WISH TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION, FOLLOWED BY ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC.
WISHING TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT.
SPELL YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, SURELY.
I AM HERE ON BEHALF OF NORTHGATE GONZALES MARKETS.
UM, I AM A CONSULTANT THAT ASSISTS THEM WITH PERMITS, UH, NECESSARY TO SELL ALCOHOL AT THEIR STORES.
UM, I APPEARED BEFORE YOU GUYS, I THINK THE LAST TIME AROUND, BUT, UH, I, UH, APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS.
AND I MIGHT BE ABLE TO SHED A LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT ON THAT.
I, I DO QUITE A BIT OF, UH, A, B, C LICENSING.
UH, I DON'T WORK WITH THE STATE DIRECTLY, BUT I WORK WITH A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES AND HAVE PRETTY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF, OF MOST OF THE RULES AND REGULATIONS.
WHENEVER YOU HAVE A PATIO THAT'S GONNA SERVE ALCOHOL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE, IT HAS TO BE A FENCED IN AREA.
I MEAN, WE'VE ALL BEEN TO HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF RESTAURANTS WHERE THEY HAVE A PATIO AND THERE IS A FENCED AREA THERE.
AND, UM, AS YOUR, UM, DEPUTY DIRECTOR HAD MENTIONED, IT'S, IT'S TO BE A DEMARCATION OF WHERE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE THAT ALCOHOL, WHERE YOU'RE NOT TO HAVE, UH, THAT ALCOHOL.
[00:40:01]
GATING IT, UM, OR, YOU KNOW, PUTTING, PUTTING IN GATES THERE.THAT'S KIND OF A TWOFOLD, UH, UH, SITUATION.
UH, FIRST AND FOREMOST IS ALWAYS THE PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECT OF IT.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE EXITING FOR PEOPLE, UH, IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.
AND SO ALMOST EVERY PATIO I'VE BEEN ON, I, I BELIEVE THERE'S A, A, A GATE ON JUST ABOUT EVERY PATIO I'VE EVER BEEN ON IN A RESTAURANT.
UM, AND IN THIS CASE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S, UM, AND IT'S A DISTANCE THING.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR US TO ADD A SECOND GATE, EXIT GATE OUT ON THAT PATIO OR NOT.
UM, I KNOW THAT OUR PLANS ARE IN PLAN CHECK, AND I, I WOULD ASSUME THAT YOUR FIRE, WELL, I KNOW FOR A FACT FIRE HAS LOOKED AT THIS BECAUSE WE, WE HAD A CONVERSATION EARLIER ABOUT FIRE, SO I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE LOOKED AT THIS AND, UH, UH, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, I KNOW OUR PLANS ARE IN PLAN CHECK THERE.
SO, UM, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT IT IS WITH THAT.
AND THEY DO HAVE TO BE SELF-CLOSING AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE A PUSH BAR, SO YOU'RE NOT SITTING THERE, UH, DOING ANY KIND OF LATCH THERE.
UM, OUR INTENTION WOULD BE TO HAVE PEOPLE BE ABLE TO ENTER ONTO THAT PATIO.
THERE AGAIN, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT, IT'S JUST TO HAVE A DEMARCATION.
AND WE WILL HAVE A SIGN RIGHT ON THAT GATE THAT SAYS, NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES BEYOND THIS PARTICULAR POINT PER A, B, C REQUIREMENTS.
AND HONESTLY, UM, YOU KNOW, BEST PRACTICES IN TERMS OF MANAGEMENT OF YOUR BUSINESS.
WE CAREFULLY MONITOR THE ACTIVITY OUT ON THE PATIO, UM, FOR NUMEROUS REASONS, BUT MOSTLY TO MAKE SURE THAT ONE, UH, ALCOHOL IS NOT LEAVING THE PATIO.
AND TWO, MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE MINORS, UH, OBVIOUSLY CONSUMING ALCOHOL, JUST LIKE IN ANY RESTAURANT, A 15-YEAR-OLD COULD WALK INTO ANY RESTAURANT THAT'S SERVING ALCOHOL AND SIT AT A BOOTH AND GET SERVED.
THEY CAN'T GET SERVED A BEER, BUT THEY CAN EAT A DINNER, UH, THERE.
UM, AND SO EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A CARTING PROGRAM, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE CARTING PEOPLE.
UM, THE TRAINING THAT WHEN YOU HAVE AN ON SALE LICENSE, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A REQUIRED STATE TRAINING, AND YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY GET A SERVER'S, UM, PERMIT OR, OR CERTIFICATE THAT YOU'VE PASSED THIS COURSE.
THOSE COURSES REALLY EMPHASIZE, YOU KNOW, CARTING, UM, HOW TO DO PROPER CARTING.
AND THEN ALSO, UH, SIGNS OF INTOXICATION BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SERVE SOMEBODY WHO'S, WHO'S VISIBLY INTOXICATED IN A SITUATION, UM, LIKE NORTHGATE GONZALEZ.
THIS IS NOT A PLACE LIKE A TRADITIONAL RESTAURANT WHERE WE'RE EXPECTING PEOPLE TO MAYBE COME IN AND, YOU KNOW, SIT AT OUR BAR AND, AND MAYBE HAVE A COCKTAIL BEFORE AND THEN GO SEE SEATING, AND THEN AFTER THEY'RE DONE, MAYBE GO BACK TO THE BAR.
THAT'S NOT KIND OF HOW THE SETUP IS.
IT'S MORE OF A CASUAL TYPE OF, OF RESTAURANT.
AND, UM, THERE MAY BE SOME PEOPLE THAT SIT AT THE BAR.
NOW, I WILL TELL YOU THIS, NO MINERS CAN SIT AT THE BAR PERIOD, EVEN IF THEY'RE WITH MOM OR DAD, THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, STRICTLY PROHIBITED BY A, B, C, UM, RULES.
SO THAT'S KIND OF THE NATURE OF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE PATIO AREA THERE.
WE CERTAINLY DON'T SEE WHY WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE PEOPLE ENTER ONTO THE, UM, INTO THE PREMISES THERE.
UH, AS I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, MINORS CAN COME IN.
UH, THAT'S WHY THERE'S THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 47 AND THE 48, THE 48 LICENSE.
IF A CHILD WALKS INTO A BAR, THEY HAVE TO BE IMMEDIATELY ESCORTED OUT.
YOU CAN'T HAVE, EVEN IF THEY'RE WITH MOM AND DAD, IT, IT, IT, IT'S NOT ALLOWED.
UM, SO THAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, UM, OUR, OUR THOUGHT PROCESS ON THE, UH, THE GATES THERE.
UM, THIS IS THE MODEL THAT WE'RE, UM, DOING IN, UH, COSTA MESA.
UH, THERE HASN'T BEEN PROBLEMS, UH, DOWN IN COSTA MESA WITH THIS TYPE OF SERVICE THERE.
I, I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR, UM, UH, YOUR, YOUR THING ABOUT PEOPLE WALKING WITH A GLASS OF WINE DOWN THERE.
I HAVEN'T SEEN IT VERY OFTEN, BUT I HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN IT.
I BELIEVE THAT IT, IT OCCURS AT AN IKEA THAT I WAS AT ONE TIME, THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO DO THAT.
AGAIN, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A FREQUENT THING THAT DOES HAPPEN, BUT WE WANT, UM, PEOPLE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT IF THEY JUST GOT DONE EATING.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T NECESSARILY WANT PEOPLE CHUGGING DOWN A BEER JUST SO THEY CAN GO INTO THE GROCERY STORE.
WE DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S THE TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT WE WANT TO PROVIDE EITHER.
AND, UH, WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD A, UM, ANY, ANY PARTICULAR ISSUES.
AS I MENTIONED, UH, YOU KNOW, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE GROCERY SHOPPING ARE NOT HAVING AN ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE, BUT THERE ARE GONNA BE THOSE TIMES, UH, THAT SOMEBODY WOULD.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WITH THAT, THAT, THAT'S KIND OF MY, UM, ADDRESS TO SOME OF THE IMMEDIATE, UM, QUESTIONS THAT YOU GUYS WERE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY OTHER QUESTIONS THAT YOU GUYS MIGHT HAVE.
COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK HIM ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY.
[00:45:01]
YOU.DO WE WANT TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND GO BACK TO DISCUSSION OR? ALL RIGHT.
WE'LL NOW CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND I WILL CALL ON THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS FOR DISCUSSION OR A MOTION.
I AM LOOKING THROUGH THE RESOLUTION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I WOULD SUSPECT THAT WE, WE HAVE A SPECIFIC CONDITION AND ALL OUR RESOLUTIONS THAT REQUIRE EVERYTHING TO COMPLY WITH ALL THE CODES.
SO KNOWING THAT WE HAVE THAT CONDITION IN THERE AND WE KNOW THAT FIRE HAS BEEN THERE, I, I, YOU KNOW, I STILL HAVE MY QUESTION AND HOPE THE BUILDING OFFICIAL DOUBLE CHECKS THE EXITING.
UM, BUT I THINK THE RESOLUTION IS WRITTEN WILL ENSURE THAT THAT HAPPENS AS IT GOES THROUGH THE PLAN CHECK PROCESS.
SO BASED ON THAT, I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 26 DASH SIX TO APPROVE MODIFICATION 26 DASH 0 0 0 1 TO CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 25 DASH 16.
A MOTION HAS BEEN MADE BY COMMISSIONER.
I ALMOST CALLED YOU COMMISSIONER MANLEY SLAND AND SECONDED BY MYSELF.
EVERYONE, PLEASE ENTER YOUR VOTES.
MOTION PASSES THREE ZERO AND THIS WILL BECOME EFFECTIVE IN 10 WORKING DAYS UNLESS IT'S APPEALED TO CITY COUNCIL.
ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS FROM STAFF THIS EVENING? ONLY TO SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY ITEMS READY TO BE SCHEDULED FOR YOUR SECOND MEETING IN MARCH.
AND STAFFORD RECOMMEND THAT YOU CONTINUE, OR THAT THE NEXT MEETING EXPECTED WOULD BE APRIL 13TH.
UM, DO THE, ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY COMMENTS? I, I'D LIKE TO SAY FIRST, AGAIN, I ALWAYS LEARN SO MUCH FROM QUESTIONS BY COMMISSIONER RAMS, LYNN, AND VICE VICE CHAIR RAMS, LYNN AND COMMISSIONER MANLEY.
UM, AND ALSO, UM, I WANTED TO REMIND OR INVITE YOU ALL TO THE HUNDREDTH BIRTHDAY OF THE LAHABRA AMERICAN LEGION POST 2 6 7.
WE'RE GONNA BE CELEBRATING ON TRYING TO READ THIS SATURDAY, APRIL 11TH FROM 5:00 PM UNTIL 10:00 PM THERE'S GONNA BE DANCING AND ITALIAN FOOD.
IT'S GONNA BE COCKTAIL ATTIRE.
UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK ME, OR RSVP TOOK CARRY SEARCH.
I WISH I HAD FLYERS, BUT I DON'T
BUT HAVING SAID THAT, THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS BEFORE THE COMMISSION.
THE MEETING IS ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, MARCH 23RD, 2026.